|
|
Post by Wiotack on Oct 24, 2006 16:46:50 GMT -5
There is currently a thread running on the CoA Officers Forum about our progress in Molten Core. Recent runs to MC have have not been quite as successful as our past runs have been so we're trying to find a solution to enable CoA members to continue progress through to Rag. To that end, we will most likely be doing three Molten Core runs each week.
Night 1 will most likely see Lucifron, Magmadar, Garr and Gehennas taken down. Night 2 will most likely see Shazz, Baron Geddon, Golemagg, and Sulfuron fall. Night 3 will cover any bosses still left standing from Night 1 and Night 2, and will continue on to make Majordomo Executus submit, and a serious attempt on Ragnaros.
What we'd like to ask is that the first timers and lesser equipped members limit themselves to Night 1 MC runs
Better equipped members should feel free to sign up for Night 1 OR Night 2 depending on the equipment you still need from each of the bosses.
Night 3 will be for the more veteran players who have most of their Tier 1 gear and enough fire resistance to survive an assault on Rag.
In order to assure that our Night 3 run will succeed, the sign ups for it will be handled a bit differently than our current runs. Once the Night 3 run is posted you will notice that there are 40 slots available, but the class limits will be set to 0. This means that when you sign up you will automatically be put in the queue for the run. The raid leader will check the PhP site on a regular basis and move people from the queue and give them a spot in the raid based on their knowledge of the members that are considered our veteran.
I hope all of you understand that this change in the sign up for Night 3 is not meant to exclude any of you, but rather is being done to assure having a veteran crew which will have the best chance of downing Rag.
If you have any questions about this feel free to contact me in game or on the boards and I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability.
Grimme
|
|
|
|
Post by Lastat on Oct 24, 2006 19:33:19 GMT -5
hmmf, o well, im glad i deleted my raid account anyway. feels like i am a member in an exclusive golf club, or in a raidwhore guild.
not sorry, just my thoughts...
|
|
|
|
Post by Wiotack on Oct 25, 2006 5:05:33 GMT -5
Not sure I understand why you think this is such a bad thing. We are far from exclusive here. We aren't stopping anyone from going on night 1 or night 2, just suggesting that people take a look at their own equipment and pick a night that is appropriate for their equipment and experience before signing up.
As for night 3, we can't get further than Domo unless we have people that have at least a chance of surviving Rag's fire effects and the spawn of fire elementals he brings out so I don't think it's unreasonalbe to restrict those signups to people that are better equipped.
Grimme.
|
|
|
|
Post by Glifnich on Oct 25, 2006 11:52:03 GMT -5
I agree that we aren't able to get to Rag in just 2 nights. Which nights are being considered for the 3rd? We don't seem to be having much luck with weekends for Rag or BWL.
For weeks when we do Onyxia on Tuesday and MC on Wednesday/Thursday, could we go kill Luci and Mag after Ony? I floated this on the COA board, but nevers saw any response. Maybe everyone thinks its a very bad idea.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aeife/Niamb on Oct 25, 2006 13:09:21 GMT -5
Let me start by saying I think we are fortunate to be part of the Coalition of Azeroth and that the CoA is fortunate to have leaders like Keelmann and Cici who bend over backwards to be as fair, accommodating and understanding as humanly possible. We are fortunate to have a dedicated guild leader like Wiotack to represent us in the CoA. Most small guilds, like DoJ are unable to access any of the end-game content in World of Warcraft. We owe a big THANK YOU to the people who put in the time and effort to make this coalition work for us. Lately the accusatory tones of some of the posts about the CoA have given me pause. No coalition is perfect. Not everyone will be pleased with every decision or every outcome. But please bear in mind when you post, that being a leader in this coalition is a pretty thankless task, taken on by people who are giving their time to make the gaming experience better for all of us. People of goodwill will disagree, but we can disagree while showing respect for each other.
I was DoJ’s original representative to the CoA so maybe I can give this some history. The CoA was formed to allow a group of smaller guilds access to the World of Warcraft’s end-game content. It was initially first-come, first-served. There was to be no DKP or Suicide Kings. Everyone for whom an item would be an appropriate upgrade could roll on what dropped. That is what everyone wanted, in every guild that was then part of the CoA. Unfortunately the strategy we would all prefer does not work with the WoW end-game encounters.
Many members of the Defenders of Justice have left WoW because they do not like the end-game design. They have very valid points. The design of WoW has not worked well with our guild’s more casual play style. Once one gets their Tier 0 armor there is very little left to do. Now there is Tier .5 armor, but the expense is large to get this and most that choose to stay in the game, choose to pursue Tier 1 armor instead and Tier 1 armor is available in Molten Core.
The way World of Warcraft is designed, the end-game is all about the quality of armor and weapons. You can’t take on Molten Core till your group has Tier 0 armor. You can’t complete Molten Core till your group is equipped in Tier 1 armor and have high Fire Resist. Then you are ready to move on to Blackwing Lair. Once your group is well equipped in Tier 2 armor, you are ready to move on to AQ-40. It is a successive ramping up and you can’t move to the next stage until your group is well equipped with armor and weapons from the preceding stage.
The CoA’s more casual approach has hit a wall in Molten Core. The group cannot progress unless they change to accommodate the game. In fact they are regressing, as well-equipped members leave their CoA guilds and move to hard-core raiding guilds as they become frustrated with the CoA’s lack of progress in MC. This is a move to try work within the game design to accommodate the needs and desires of the members of the CoA. It is not some evil plot by the CoA to exclude people. It is a compromise, trying to work within the game design to allow the group to progress, finish Molten Core and move on to other challenges. Two nights out of 3, anyone can sign up. One night a week will be limited to well equipped vets. This will allow the entire group to progress. As folks attend nights one and two, they will become well equipped vets themselves and be able to sign up for all three nights. Frankly, I believe it will allow more space for sign ups on nights one and two as the vet MC raiders concentrate on the night most likely to lead to upgrades, while less equipped raiders will find more slots open for them on the other two nights.
I think the end-game of WoW was poorly designed. Don’t blame the CoA for this. Blame Bizzard. I think the Burning Crusade will address many of these design flaws, but until that comes out in January, we are stuck with the present iteration of the game. Right now the CoA is struggling with how best to work within the current design of the game to best meet the needs of its membership. Not everyone will be happy, no matter what they do. Please respect their efforts even if you are not always happy with the outcome. They are doing their best to accommodate the desires of a diverse group within the construct of a badly flawed end-game.
|
|
Teras
Full Member
Posts: 184
|
Post by Teras on Oct 25, 2006 14:19:55 GMT -5
Amen
My mentor's favorite saying is..."Never complain because the desert is dry"
The moral being. Blizzard set the rules of progression, not the CoA. To do end game we all have to walk through the desert and it sometimes isnt fun.
Burning crusades will change all of this as most of this equipment will become easily outdated and the new gear at lvl 70 will allow groups to skip portions of this content, (ie...move straight to AQ 40 or Naxx). From my personal experience I am raiding AQ 40 without ever having step foot in Scholomance and only once into Stratholme. I did UBRS once to get keyed for BWL. All of those dungeons used to be the neccesary sites for our advanced gear, but now they are skippable.
Huzzah to the people for represent our guild in CoA. Thanksless job doesnt cover it.
Teras
|
|
|
|
Post by Lastat on Oct 25, 2006 15:18:41 GMT -5
i needed to vent a little bit. i have a new job with a 4 day rotating shift. i knew i wouldnt be able to raid much anymore since i came back, and then with the new dkp system even if i am able to raid once a month, i am actually harming the raid group with my presence, since i am unable to gear up. so, dont take what i said to heart, you all should know by now i get hot and need to kool down a little bit  |
|
|
|
Post by Wiotack on Oct 25, 2006 16:08:24 GMT -5
Quite to the contrary, your presence there will be a great help. What night 1 will be come is more of any equipping run. People will see more BOE's fall that others of their class already have. Even under the new system it's still very possible to get 2 or 3 epics in a night depending on what drops. The night 2's will be more of a finish up your set run but still very possible to get 1 or more epics.
The other thing too is that we can work to get you a set of volcanic armor to increase your fire resist so you are more survivable.
Just let me know and I'll try to find out who can make the volcanic pieces.
Grimme
|
|
|
|
Post by Lastat on Oct 25, 2006 17:12:13 GMT -5
then how bout having like n00b runs running constantly? i know there are many, many ppl in coa who could run thru instances with their eyes closed. even if the person the raid is "set" to doesnt have to be the group leader. these runs could be set up to gear up ppl who cant get in on main raid days, then gear up alts secondary to mains. with all the ppl signing up for raids, to me, doesnt seem like a problem really, to me anyway.
just a thot...
|
|
|
|
Post by Urilaxus on Oct 25, 2006 18:32:14 GMT -5
I agree with CoA decision, as a poorly equipped raid on night 3 will never get anywhere.
My question is, are they going to ask people who are fully equipped to run night 1 and 2 less? Or is it going to be the same group over and over again?
Also, I think there should be a different way to sign up, or maybe post the raids at a different time, so it's not the same people raiding over and over again, because they post the raid during a current raid.
I've been a 60 for a long time, and was raiding in MC when we were only taken down 2 bosses a night, well with a combination of me not playing, not being available for raids, or loot drops not going my way, I wasn't able to play for a while. When I came back I was able to get on some raids here and there and then pretty soon once you miss one night you cant hit any of the other ones because they are full the minute they are posted, and now we have 9 rogues signing up regularly...
I want to be regular raider, gear up my toon and help out CoA, but it's almost impossible now
|
|
Arlo
Moderator 
Posts: 308
|
Post by Arlo on Oct 25, 2006 19:02:15 GMT -5
I think the sign up system is fine the way it stands, if you look people who are fully equipped or close to usually sign up for the days when the piece they need will drop. Otherwise they usually go into the queue and let someone else take a spot - but still be available if needed.
We still need vets going in the first 2 nights to make runs a success, those vets usually pass up on the armor pieces they have it already. At our zenith, we were pushing 4 bosses on the first night; now the standard is 3.
As a guild we have the assests to make or get gear for MC, but we need to work on tactics. When in a group, the group should come first: if your the Main Tank (MT) use a shield, even if your fury specced; if your the main healer - heal and conserve mana, if want to do damage use your wand; rogues should watch when a mob goes for the cloth wearers and use gouge to momentary stun them; cloth wearers wait until the tank gets and maintain aggro before unloading, being able to AoE does not make the most efficent means of killing things if you can't get through an instance - better to kill things one at a time and survive than wiping.
Learn to use crowd control to get through an instance and we should do fine, assign roles and stick to it. If the raid/group leader does not assign them, ask. This way everyone knows their job.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wiotack on Oct 25, 2006 21:37:36 GMT -5
I continue to sign up for all MC runs for one reason and one reason only. That being the fact that there are just 2 dwarf priests that come to the runs, and we are needed for FW on some of the boss fights to make them go smoother.
Other vets though are queue'ing instead of signing up in the raid so that others can get in.
As for Noob runs, I'd love to see groups of 20 or so do trash runs. Problem with that is that if any of you have been in another run that killed a boss that week, you'll have a raid ID, and as such the core hounds won't be there when you go in as the core hounds disappear once Magmadarr is killed.
Grimme
|
|
|
|
Post by Obiwill on Oct 26, 2006 7:07:14 GMT -5
I think this next step, the three night raiding, is a good step forward especially in regards to retaining veterans. I don't see it as making a high end raid guild but rather opening up more slots for people to get into raids as well.
With the Suicide Kings system in place, I also saw a two page queue, which is wonderful. A raid leader may not have to rummage guilds to round out a raid, reducing our start up time.
Lastat, I also think even if you go only once a month, both you and the group benefit. First, you may be like me without much gear. Many will pass either because they have it or are working on something different. Which means you could come out with multiple epic items in a raid! Granted that happened to me only once but the point is your character will get more powerful fairly quickly. The real challenge I think has been the signups.
I wish there was a better way to get more people in, so we spread the experience around but given RL commitments and last minute changes, maybe this is the best that can be done in the more casual mode.
|
|
