PHP Raid Signup and why bother?

[Obiwill]

I point this out simply because since I was mysteriously shuffled out of a MC raid two weeks ago, I have watched the queue, particulary with regards to Pitoro. This morning he was jumped up the list past me (note our signup times) for the 10/26 raid.

I checked back again to see he is now listed as being in the raid, no longer just in queue. Again, signup times indicate I should be in the raid not Pitoro. Obviously an adminstrator is moving people around, except sloppily forgetting to clean up things as he/she does it.

Why put a system in when you hack it? It might as well be opened up so any of us can transfer to a friend who wants to go? I know getting into raids was a pain for me, and you really have to jump to the boards when it is announced during the raid or you won't get in. Not as a pally.

I don't mind NOT going; I can use the sleep with my new job. It is HOW it occurs that is important. Pitoro is, and always will be, a cheater. This is the second time he has facilitated this. Gawd knows who else in CoA does it as I only have the attention span to monitor pallys.

[Glifnich]

One (legit) reason I can think of is that Pitoro was accidently moved to the que or deleted from the raid and this was done to put him back where he should be. Send the raid leader a PM to find out what happened. Keelman or Cici may also be able to help you, they have admin privleges. I would be very interested in finding out the reason for the change. If it is favoratism, then it has to be stopped. (To my knowledge, there is no restriction based on gear or resistance for MC. I only mention this since I've heard about you being "bacon" in guild chat.)

[Blackwind]

I would agree with glif, ask around and see what happened (this is a generally a good idea for any situation in any game)

I'm just curious though, what does it mean to call someone bacon?

[Obiwill]

Bacon is my own joke, however, my FR is higher than his. And he was not originally in the raid to my knowledge. He appeared in the queue from what I could tell was today, as I was in queue as first pally when I signed into it, which was one hour ahead of him.

[Jaxs]

I will ask Grimme to look into this. There should be a legitimate answerer.
Lets not jump to conclusions but this sounds very strange to me.

I am reviewing Tuesdays Onyxia raid list and there seems to be a name out of place time and date wise.

MC1 On Wednesday the same seems to be true as well.

MC2 as well.

In general the lists are chronological but all the lists seem to have some abnormalities. I am wondering why.

[Wiotack]

I did look at the queues and found they do seem a bit out of order. I also had problems when I signed up for Ony as there was an opening in the raid for a priest but it put me in the queue. Not sure what's going on, but I did send a private message to Cici today to ask her to look into it for me as when I looked at the signup log I couldn't tell what had happened. One thing I DO know is that even as an admin I can't move people around in the queue itself, all an admin can do is move people from the queue up to the main raid and vice versa.

I'll keep you posted on what Cici finds out.

Grimme

[keelmann]

Obi, we're checking into it, so far, no one specifically moved Pit up in the list.

And I understand the frustration, but please rein in the accusations. phpRaid is relatively buggy software, we've had significant problems in the past. If something IS going on that shouldn't be, it will be stomped flat, and quickly. However, accusations of cheating and collusion are simply out of line.

You can call me a fool, you can call me a nub, you can even call me a Steeny, doesn't bother me. But if accusations of lying and cheating are levelled at me, please be aware I will take significant exception, as I believe any of the raid leaders will.

[Elara]

We've fixed the accidental bump, and I've gone back and checked all the other current raids and can't find anything wrong in those, and I can't find any instance of anyone being bumped down and replaced by someone who signed up after them in any other instance in October either. If I'm missing something, please let us know. Hopefully, this was an isolated incident.

Most likely what happened was that someone with raid leader access was trying to be nice and bump up the next person in queue, and didn't sort by date and just bumped someone up without looking to see if that was truly the person who was next in the queue. As Keelmann said, php is a bit tricky and doesn't always work like it should, so even though it's supposed to automatically sort by date and time of sign up, it doesn't always do so.

I can tell you right now that there is not, has never been, and will never be any kind of conspiracy to "help" certain members by bumping up people out of turn. That's just silly. We're all friends, and we'd gain nothing other than animosity by being rude to people in such an obvious manner.

[Jaxs]

I still see some names at the top of ques that have dates indicating those names should not be there? I dident realize there was a way to bump people up in que.

Please check: Onyxia and MC night 1 The people at the top of the list.

I dont think anyone is saying anything other than if there is a bug we should know about it.

I have personally had problems with php in the past that has been fixed.
So, this is just par for the course.

Thanks for your efforts.

[Wiotack]

After reading your post a little closer, I realized that I should have said something about the insunation you made in my ealier post.

First and foremost there are very few people that have access to be able to bump someone up. Those that do have the access are beyond reproach and that's why they HAVE the access to do so.

I realized after Cici pointed it out that I have not been sorting the queue by date and once I did, there were still a few discrepencies due to it not sorting by time AND date, but any of the raid leaders would obviously look at both date and time when inviting people from the queue.

While it may seem a bit odd, there really is no grand conspiracy here nor is there a hack that allows people to bump their friends up. Please try to understand that.

Grimme

[Jaxs]

Everyone please hit Sort By date prior to viewing the que...

[Obiwill]

I understand software can be buggy. I also know that I can phrase things in many different ways, some better than others. However, my point here besides venting was to inform guildmates to watch their sign up.

I have never been adverse to what I thought was the system. But I know others (my guess Rogues and Paladins) have said something about never getting into raids. I myself fell into that pattern until I camped the raid sign up board.

That is why, to me, the issue of adhering to the signup is important. It is not perfect and I feel guilty every raid I am on that someone who wanted to get in couldn't due to it being filled.
But I believe in fair play.

And yes, I say what is on my mind. If I thought one person or another was moving someone up, I would say that. The reality is I saw, and correctly so, a person going up the queue. I don' t mind taking a back seat if there is a specific reason but without much ado it has happened three times that I was aware of; once to me, but honestly since my memory is not what it once was, I allowed for the fact I did not remember accurately. Then there was a guildmate who mentioned in guildchat he got bumped into queue, which again, if I dont see it, I am skeptical. Lastly was this instance which I had watched somewhat concientiously.

As I have said, and will reiterate, I have know problem in moving out of the way if asked so someone can go on a raid. The more players with experience the better we will be.

[Arinna]

Well damn .. does this mean kissing ass doesnt get me ahead at all?

[Fearghaill]

I know I'm a little late yo the party on this one, but try as I might I can't allow this to pass without comment.

Obiwill, I know that you have had issues with Pitorro in the past, causing you to drop out of a ZG run when he asked you to download Ventrilo. Is this why you chose to insult him with baseless accusations without making the slightest effort to see if an honest mistake had been made? The point has been made that no one trusted with raid leader access would deliberately break the rules in this way, but it also needs to be pointed out that even if this was taking place you have no way of knowing that Pitorro was even aware of it, let alone requesting it.

"Pitorro is, and always will be, a cheater."

Back this up. Now. Either that or retract it.

[tovah]

Of all the people I've met and played with in WoW, Pitorro is one of the handful I consider a true friend in and out of game. In the two years I've played with him, I've not once seen him ninja-loot, steal a raid spot, or be anything less than an upstanding guild member and friend. I know for a fact that he's come on many, many, runs when he was dead tired and didn't feel at all like playing just so someone else could have a shot at loot they wanted. If he was, as you suggest, a "cheater", I guarantee you he'd have long since moved on to other guilds and other content--and certainly would've acquired a reputation to match his actions.

I understand your frustration, Obi, but your concerns should've been voiced in private to the leaders of the CoA and Primis. There was no need and no reason to attack Pitorro publicly. I agree with Feral--either back up your accusation of cheating with hard evidence, or retract it.

[Jaxs]

I think that this issue has been resolved a ways back. I think people need to be reminded to hit sort by date is all.

[Fearghaill]

I'm sorry, but I do not feel this was resolved. Obiwill said some very offensive and untrue things about a member of Primis, and I feel Pitorro is owed both a retraction and an apology.

[Obiwill]

I'm sorry, but I do not feel this was resolved. Obiwill said some very offensive and untrue things about a member of Primis, and I feel Pitorro is owed both a retraction and an apology.


And you would be correct; I do need to offer a retraction and an apology. The nice thing about text is one can reread what one wrote. What I originally wrote about spilled over to a personal attack and for that I apologize.

My baseless accusations about the system were based on observations and issues I had mentioned before, that were sent off. For that I was wrong, but I wont apologize about leaping to conclusions. It happens, and I wish I had not.

As for the ZG raid, I never asked for an apology nor recieved one. I simply left the party when I could not comply with the request. It was the tells that followed me after that simply ignited the situation from my point of view. But for my part I simply forgot it all and never signed up again. It, to me, was the best solution.

So to, in my longwinded fashion, say in short, I apologize to Pitorro and your guild. I also apologize to DoJ, for I did not mean to reflect poorly on the guild.

Obi

[Fearghaill]

Thank you.